The reaction to Shaun Livingston’s injury is far-reaching and diverse. People from here in Hollywood all the way into Burbank are discussing, discussing, discussing.
Most are horrified by the pure horror of the leg-bending action, and almost all are of the opinion nobody should have to go through such a thing.
We spoke at length with one Clipper season ticket holder yesterday who said he thinks the thing is awful on a personal level, but that the team will probably play better without him (despite Coach Mike D).
The thing that stuck out the most to us was this email we received from reader Nathan, however.
Please tell me how on earth you contend that Shaun Livingston’s injury was preventable. If you’re whole comment on his trainer meant to imply that there is some way to strengthen knee ligaments to resist the type of force they took when he knee torqued like it did, then you must have never been too much of an athlete or don’t know too much about the atheletes you write about. If you had been, you would have been around many more ligament tears that were 1000 less obvious than livingstons (and preventable in your eyes) and trained with weights where the emphasis is to create and maintain muscle, not strengthen every single ligament in your body to make them “more durable from injury” as you would say.
Couple things here. First of all, thanks to Nathan for writing in. While we don’t know that there’s much more to discuss about this, it keeps us from having to go read newspapers for things to write about.
Second, The reason his leg torqued like it did is because his strength in said leg was not sufficient, unless you’re seeing something we’re not. The angle was slightly off, but not enough for that to happen. Not in a properly conditioned elite athlete. (Note Livingston’s ongoing injuries the past three years, as well.)
We’re not sure if you’re actually agreeing with us or not, but weight training does strengthen ligaments – especially large free weight exercises like squats, bench press, etc. Moreso, these also strengthen all the little muscles around the bigger muscles, therefore making you more durable and less prone to weird injuries like your leg collapsing when coming down from a layup.
(This is why you should do squats instead of the quad/hamstring machines. If your quads are strong, but the smaller muscles that support the quads aren’t, you’re setting yourself up to get hurt.)
Third, we bring all this up mainly because guys like Livingston and Larry Hughes make us mad. There’s a reason Michael Jordan and Karl Malone rarely went down with little tweaks and sprains, let alone having their leg collapse when coming down from a layup. They built strong bodies and took care of them.
Finally, we think you all know by now that if you send us either a well thought out or horribly thought out email, we’ll probably use it as a crutch to get a post out of it, even if there’s a glaring misuse of the word “you’re”, which is a contraction of “you are”. Nathan, you’re looking for “your” in that case.
Regardless, it’s those middle of the road emails we just can’t use. So, either be horrible or be really good.
(We think this was the first ever weight training lesson on YAYsports! NBA.)
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“Y-O-U-Apostrophe-R-E means you are…Y-O-U-R MEANS YOUR!!!”
Nice use of ET by the way, he has a look that suggests everything is going according to plan
Shaun Livingston spent his entire summer shooting jumpers or in the weight room. He had the Clippers’ strength and conditioning coach working with him at all hours of the day and night. The implication that he hasn’t worked hard enough on getting stronger is simply uninformed.
The comparison to Jordan and Malone is disingenuous in the extreme. Jordan entered the league at the age of 21, which is Livingston’s current age. Jordan also missed 64 games when he broke a bone in his left foot in his second season, at the age of 22. As for Malone, you’re talking about a guy that came into the league at 6′9″ 250 and is one of the greatest physical specimans of all time. Shaun Livingston could spend every minute of every day in the weight room and he would never be as strong as Karl Malone. Of course he would lose lots of the quickness that makes him the player that he is in the meantime.
Livingston’s history of injury and his current injury in particular are tragic, and certainly of concern to Clipper fans. He is the very definition of ‘injury-prone’ in that for three seasons, he has been prone to get injured. But if you’re going to suggest that he needs to spend more time in the weight room, don’t you first need to know how much time he has spent there? Do you know that? Exactly how much more time should he have spent?
There is a co-worker of mine that uses that squiggly (~), instead of apostrophes (’) and it annoys me so much that everytime I see it on a memo or email, I print it out (if it’s an email) OR I just take my red highlighter and highlight it.
Then I pin the punctuation problem to my bulletin board where everyone, including the offender, can see it and then say that I’m an asshole under their breath.
Becky still hasn’t added Boney… I’m going to give up and rescind my invitation to be my friend. Becky, you are no longer my friend, and I’m ok with that. I will just have to drool over The Cavalier’s gorgeous funbags instead of yours… my what a drop-off in talent that is by the way…
Sometimes people just have weak ligaments.
The huge majority of professional athletes spend countless hours in the weight room under the supervision of professional trainers who undoubtedly know what they’re doing.
I think that to blame the trainers here would be wrong, some people are just injury prone, despite any preventive measures they take.
Wow, I didn’t know they make red highlighters.
Based on what I know about NBA players, until I see training and nutrition logs, I need to assume the dude didn’t do much. This is based on his frame, overall non-progress of his game, frequently lax attitude on the court, and injury history.
Trainers and such can outline the greatest programs in the world, but if the guys don’t execute them, they’re worthless. Don’t forget, nutrition and rest are as large a part of getting stronger as the actual weights are. Unless the Clipper people are sleeping over and making sure he’s not tossing McNuggets every night, none of us know much about what he has and hasn’t done.
I can only go by what I see, and you bring up some very valid points about why I could very well be wrong. He may have done everything perfectly and is just prone to freaky injuries.
That’s much more productive than Nathan, who emailed again to tell me he’s never reading the site again, and that he hopes Deadspin realizes I don’t know anything about the human anatomy. Why Deadspin’s opinion of my anatomy scholarship is a valid concern, I know not.
(I say all of this as a former professional strength trainer btw. I do have some idea what I speak of.)
Bill Simmons just crushed Scoop, ouchy².
can’t you strengthen the area around the knee that will help prevent the awkward bending of the knee?
I mean, when I had shoulder surgery to repair my rotator cuff, if I ever wanted to be a successful pitcher again I was told to strengthen my entire shoulder area by doing exercises that focused on the shoulder itself…
Yeah, that’s all I’m saying – strength training increases the integrity of not just the muscles but the bones and ligaments, as well.
Given the high frequency of injuries Livingston experiences, it is surprising that physically, he does not look like he tried too hard to strengthen his trouble areas. There is nothing he can do if he is injury prone in a certain area (due to genetics, birth defects, etc.), or rather, he is not responsible for how he was “made”, but he is responsible for staying that way.
Also, only a super hardcore mass-building weight program, in conjunction with a highly specific diet, would add so much muscle that it would compromise his quickness, but even if it DID compromise his quickness, isn’t that a fair price to pay to lengthen your career? Everyone has to make sacrifices to improve weak links in their game, and for Livingston, it seems that if he would have diligently pursued a responsible strength program and taken responsibility for his own body (non of this “waaa, waaa, its the trainer’s fault), then his knee wouldn’t collapse when landing from a layup.
Given the high frequency of injuries Livingston experiences, it is surprising that physically, he does not look like he tried too hard to strengthen his trouble areas. His physique has remained the same throughout his tenure in the NBA. There is nothing he can do if he is injury prone in a certain area (due to genetics, birth defects, etc.), or rather, he is not responsible for how he was “made”, but he is responsible for staying that way.
Also, only a super hardcore mass-building weight program, in conjunction with a highly specific diet, would add so much muscle that it would compromise his quickness, but even if it DID compromise his quickness, isn’t that a fair price to pay to lengthen your career? Everyone has to make sacrifices to improve weak links in their game, and for Livingston, it seems that if he would have diligently pursued a responsible strength program and taken responsibility for his own body (none of this “waaa, waaa, its the trainer’s fault” crap), then his knee wouldn’t have collapsed when landing from a layup.
Based on other cases of prep-to-pro injuries, I’d chalk up his injury to a lack of a solid strength base, the kind that players develop by playing a solid year or two in college. Only the most phenomenal athletic specimens can physically handle going from prep to pro, and Livingston’s frame isn’t exactly tailored to efficiently absorb the punishment of the NBA season.
And he could easily get stronger and more durable without necessarily getting that much bigger mass-wise. It’s all in how he devises the regimen.
Still long using the gold mine that is Cassell-Gollum I see. And this is real simple: If he got on the special Frank Williams PG Diet this doesn’t happen. In the “FW PG Diet” you eat cheeseburgers. LOTS OF CHEESEBURGERS. Frank Williams went from a promising backup PG on the Knicks to a promising backup PG on the Bulls to a . . . where IS Frank Williams now?
It feels like I’m reading the WebMD message board over here. As a former professional baseball player, part-time collegiate basketball player and a former certified strength and speed trainer, I could sit here and tell you exactly what the problem is….but I won’t because I like to see you argue with each other.
I agree with Nathan, how can prevent an accident like that? You see I’m nothing but 14 years of age, and Shaun Livingston is my all-time favorite player, and I’m not saying this cause he’s my favorite player, but none of this couldn’t have been prevented. Whatever sports trainer said that this injury could’ve been prevented, something is wrong because this was an accident. Shaun was just going up for a lay-up and he came down in a bad way. Its not like he wanted this to happen, basketball is his life, and you saw how mad he was when he was sitting on the stretcher, so no need to come out and say it was preventable. And now they are saying that it may cost him $40 Million. Thats not cool, not at all. And by the way Im from Alexandria, Louisiana. And you all let the man speak for himself!!!!
Sorry folks, after 3 of my own knee dislocations (twice while playing basketball), the truth is you CAN NOT STRENGTHEN A LIGAMENT through weight training. You CAN strengthen the muslces around the knee and in that manner make a dislocation less likely, but it’s still by no means a guarantee. In fact, I was diagnosed with having misaligned knee-caps making them highly prone to dislocation. Regardless of the amount of weight training I did my knees were doomed. This kind of thing is as much genetic as anything else.
Ummmm…weight training strengthens ligaments and increases bone density. It’s a fact – like backed by science and stuff.
Sorry to hear about your knees for real.
When is YayWeightTraining launching?
It’s already started. EVERY DAY IN MY BATHROOM WITH DUMBBELLS, A MIRROR, AND BABY OIL.
I am not sure which direction to take this in….
i think he shouldnt have gone up for the lay-up in the first place when he had a guy right behind him!!! he was stupid for doing it and he payed for it, i would have just pulled it out and worked for a good shot
Hey, maybe it is genetics but to go down the way he did after performing a layup was weird no lie. But as a baller I can see how it might happen, for example having no clue where his feet were when he landed. it sucks, no lie. He is a skinny guy abut nevertheless having all your weight coming down on chicken legs at a weird angle makes it pretty esy for something to break. Maybe it was the clippers fault for paying someone so much money who is as skinny and tall and fragile as livingston was. nevertheless livingston is a sick player, and I wish him all the best in his recovery and that instead of going for an awkward layup, maybe stop, pop an ddrop a three or dunk. Much love hope to see the clippers in 2010 in the finals with shaun livingston leading the pack. Much love
Monju, hit the nail on the head Shauns foot/leg did not know where it was. When we jump,run,walk and use stairs our brain should know where our feet are when they are off the ground. We do not look at our feet when performing these task, like a cat thrown in the air it knows where it is when in space! so it will always land on its feet,this response SHOULD be automatic. look up the word PROPRIOCEPTION.The muscles Shaun needs to strengthen are his glutes for the lower body and his rhomboids for the upper body to help with shoulder stability.First thing is PROPRIOCEPTION! I also work in the gym that the is home for the Clippers I know how every player trains and I know the their strength trainer and athletic trainer.
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